Interview with Larry Brooks of StoryFix.com and author of “Whisper of the Seventh Thunder”

Story Structure Demystified by Larry Brooks

Ok, right up front, let me tell you that, yes, I did enjoy my English classes in college.

Pshew, that was good to get off my chest.

But yes, I like to take novels and movies apart and discuss how the author made the story work.  I even liked discussing symbolism although I balked when my professor compared Gregor Samsa, the main character in Kafka’s The Metamorphosis, to Jesus.  (She made an impression though–I’m still looking for how she got the idea.)

I’ve always been the person to comment on what I think the director did right (or wrong) and how scenes come together to make the end result.

So, when I stumbled across , a site focusing on story structure and architecture, I pretty much thought I was in heaven.  Especially when I learned he was going to deconstruct the novel and movie, Shutter Island.

Upon purchasing Larry’s ebook, Story Structure Demystified, I began to read.

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As a writer and someone who does like to talk about how stories work, I thought I had a pretty good familiarity with story structure.

This book really cements it though–in clear, precise language with some excellent examples, Larry takes what I already know intuitively through my own experience and puts it into words.   I’m still not done reading the first pass of the book, but it already has been extremely helpful in getting the plot of my own work-in-progress, The House, put together.  I’ve been stuck on creating meaningful scenes–the structure outline that Larry talks about has really begun to help me think about how I want my own novels to work.

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Larry Brooks

I asked Larry if he would be willing to participate in an interview with me.  He has a fantastic interview up at another site (that you should go read–both the questions and the answers are interesting reading!) and he answered a few questions for me as well.

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I know writers that get up early and write first thing in the morning. I’m sure there are writers who write long hours into the night.  I write when I can because I have a three-year old   Do you have a specific time and/or place where you write?

Actually, because I write full time (freelance stuff when I’m not writing Storyfix or taking care of business via email), I pretty much write all day, every day.  Sometimes I go way late, until the middle of the night, and the first thing I do when I get up is check email, and sometimes that glue me to the keyboard until past noon.  Other than a few meals, some movies and a daily visit to the gym, I’m at the keyboard all day.

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In your ebook, you talk about the necessity of story structure in order to achieve your (the writer’s) goals with their stories.  It seems very precise and exact–you must have this plot point on this page of your screenplay or within this particular section of the book.  Is structure as demanding as it sounds?  (No, I’ve not finished your ebook yet )

Yes and no.  For someone learning the craft, it is.  For someone who completely gets it and knows when and how to depart from the norm, then things are flexible.  It’s very much like a game.  Take basketball, for instance.  You’d never teach your kids the game by demonstrating the same things that the NBA players do.  They play one-on-one when they should be passing, they abuse the rules of traveling and three second in the key, they push and shove each other well beyond what the rules say they should.  If a kid did that, they’d never make their grade school team.  Or they’d get coached out of those habits. The principles — I prefer that to the word “rules” are guidelines, and they are there because they work.  Most of the new writers who ignore them or abuse them do so precisely because they don’t understand them.  To understand them is to value them.  You have to learn how to stretch the parameters, you just can’t do it successfully until you’ve mastered the basics first.  If you submit a story without a plot point, you don’t have a prayer of selling it.  Just a fact.

The proof is in the experience of reading novels and seeing movies.  You really can’t find a published novel or a produced movie that violates these principles.  Why not start there in the story development process, if that’s where you need to end up?

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The advice from National Novel Writers’ Month tells you to “just get the words down; you can go back and fix it later.”  What I think I’m hearing from you is structure is the most important piece of a story and I should have the complete novel outlined before I start so I can add in the foreshadowing that keeps the tension up.  Is there a middle ground between the two?

First off, NaNoWrMo is an exercise in writing voice, and by definition it doesn’t allow the writer to engage in the process correctly, especially if they are a newer writer.  Any draft that is “pantsed” — written by the seat of your pants — will require a significant rewrite.  You can’t write a story successfully until you know the ending.  Or know the major story milestones (plot points).  Or the sub-text.  Or character backstory.  And a bunch of other things.  It just can’t be done.  Some successful writers say they pants their stories, but they’re experienced, they lay out the story straight out of their head with the principles in mind, and in place.  Newer writers can’t do this.  As for NaNoWrMo, if someone spent a week planning their story, and doing so in full awareness and observance of the principles of story structure, then what they write would make much more sense.  You could write a 60,000 word novel by writing 3000 words a day for 20 days, after 10 days of story planning.  Nobody that I know of has published a NaNoWrMo manuscript without basically tearing it apart and starting over.

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Whisper of the Seventh Thunder, Larry's most recent book

What do you find to be the most challenging part of deconstructing a novel or a movie?

Well, finding the time.  It takes a lot of time to sit down and write a summary of each scene.  Other than that, once you know what to look for, it’s pretty easy to spot the story architecture in virtually any successful story.  That’s why learning them, as principles, first — sort of like studying the rules of the road before you learn to drive, or taking ground school before you try to actually fly an airplane — and then doing deconstructions to cement your knowledge and learn how it all comes together… that’s the ticket.

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You are currently running a series on deconstructing “Shutter Island” on your blog, StoryFix.com–basically taking the story apart as the author put it together and showing how Dennis Lehane made it work. What made you choose this novel/movie in particular?

Lots of reasons.  First, it’s brilliantly constructed.  It fools everyone who sees it.  Many people come out of the theater (or put down the book) having no real idea what happened.  It’s complex, layered, and basically a perfect thriller.  I try to pick stories that most people will be familiar with.

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In your experience, what do beginning writers find most difficult when it comes to writing their story?

Understanding that until they learn to plan their stories in context to known principles of architecture, they are in for a long, difficult and largely impossible road.  It’s all about process, every bit as much as talent.  And process, the one that works, is story planning.

Now, that said, you may read of a famous author — like Stephen King, or to some extent, even Dennis Lehane — who say they don’t plan. But they actually do… in their head.  They understand what goes where, and why, as a story unfolds, and it emerges from their head in just that proper sequence.  When they get to a point in the writing where something needs to happen, and in a certain way, and for a certain reason, their solution — even when they make it up on the spot — is already positioned contextually right.  Until you know the principles, that can’t happen.

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Larry is currently working on a book about the six core competencies of writing to be published by Writer’s Digest early 2011. If it’s anything like his “Story Structures Demystified” book, I’ll be first in line

You know, it dawned on me I’m writing a LOT of posts about Larry, StoryFix.com, and his ebook “Story Structures Demystified.” It probably sounds like I’m trying to get you guys to go to his site, read his posts and buy his books. Truth is: to a point, I am. Nope, no affiliation with him except I really find his information useful. Honest.

Tagged as: Authors, Craft, English, Fiction, Genres, Guidelines, Larry Brooks, NaNoWriMo, Planning, Plot, Principles, Revision, Scenes, Shutter Island, Story Structure, StoryFix, Writer's Digest